ListenSmart Beta Music Publishing Contracts (page 2)
Recovered from the Internet Archive. This page comes from a ListenSmart.com capture saved by the Wayback Machine on April 23, 2001. The original text is preserved where it survives; links and layout have been adapted for this restoration. Historical account, search, posting, voting, playback and download features are inactive; their labels remain as plain text. Images that were never archived are marked as such. Audio files were not recovered for this archive.
Source: Wayback Machine capture of ubb.listensmart.com:80/ubb/Forum12/HTML/001352-2.html.
Removal requests: email seanfenlon@yahoo.com with the page address.
Note, 2026: The publishing contracts in this thread, posted in May 2000, were a beta draft. None was ever signed, so ListenSmart.com never collected or paid any music publishing royalties. Revenue was minimal. More on the business plan page.
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 ListenSmart Beta Music Publishing Contracts (Page 2)
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| Author | Topic: ListenSmart Beta Music Publishing Contracts |
| #41
dustyw1 Guru Posts: 536 |
posted 05-20-2000 11:42 AM
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HR & BDR, Quite right. I've read the contracts very thoroughly and (amazing!) I seem to understand them. I don't see any of the problems that SC has mentioned. As far as "having to go to a 3rd party to get paid" that simply refers to the performing rights and royalties which are always covered by the PRO. From what I can see this is not just a good contract but weighted far more heavily in favour of the artist than most I've seen. I'd like to see more comments from the folks who are in favour rather than just the negatives I've seen so far. How about the fact that Sean promised and delivered? He said it'd be posted on Friday and it was. Listensmart has done everything we've asked and has kept all promises so far. I think it's time to give a big thank you to all concerned. Dusty ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #42
CBH3 Records Guru Posts: 487 |
posted 05-20-2000 11:49 AM
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Kudos to Sean for delivering! (Dusty, there was a post of this nature very soon after the posting of the contracts by an individual whose posts you refuse to read. Otherwise you may have seen Phil thanking Sean for delivering) CBH3 IP: Logged |
| #43
CBH3 Records Guru Posts: 487 |
posted 05-20-2000 11:54 AM
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Here is the quote from Sean from 3/8/00 that the above referenced link contains:
quote: IP: Logged |
| #44
Davey Boy Crocky Guru Posts: 253 |
posted 05-20-2000 12:29 PM
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When the contract first came out, I was reading it and giving my immediate reaction - kind of like brain storming. It was more like a "things I'd like to see clarified or discussed" type of thing. I just want to make sure I understand what all the implications of the contract are, so I can make an intelligent and informed decision. I thought it was good of Phil to post his thank you thread, and I echo his sentiments. Regardless of my own personal decision on the publishing contract, I think LS is a great site and I plan to promote my presence here. ------------------ Davey Boy Crocky's Solo Project IP: Logged |
| #45
Saint Cheez Guru Posts: 244 |
posted 05-20-2000 12:45 PM
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"It surprises many bands when they find out that they actually sign over ("assign") the copyright to the publishing company. A publishing agreement usually states that the band assigns their copyright to the publisher and in exchange, the band will receive one half of the publishing revenues generated. In this way, it really does not matter that you do not own the copyrights as long as you still receive your money." I rest my case. They own the copyright, even after you leave LS. In other words, forever. "For those of you who want to know why you must assign your copyright, the answer lies in a legal technicality that states the owner of the copyright must sue to enforce a copyright. You pay the publisher to take care of enforcing your copyright for you. Ask yourself the question, would you rather be in court or on the stage?" This may be good enough reason for an artist to sign this contract, but I myself would hesitate. I would be stuck in the house for 2 years, while they go out partying every day. St. Cheez ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #46
Saint Cheez Guru Posts: 244 |
posted 05-20-2000 01:00 PM
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Look guys. I was the only one who questioned the "publishing" move versus being a "catelogue" website. Some of you did remember the general plans of this site which were presented earlier. You in fact clarified it better than me. All of these plans should be taken into consideration, before you go off and sign the contract. How are you going to get from point A to point B in their plans? Will you be included in those plans? Did we all forget what MP3.com did to their artists? None of their plans were correlating with the expectations of the artists. I at least took the trouble to distinguish between a "catelog" and a "publishing" website. The two are not the same. I suppose that I should apologize for actually thinking. Best wishes, St. Cheez ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #47
BaptistDeathRay Guru Posts: 337 |
posted 05-20-2000 01:22 PM
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St Cheez, no one is admonishing you for thinking. Others do seem to disagree with you. I don't know why you're getting defensive about that, this is the internet for God's sake. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #48
Saint Cheez Guru Posts: 244 |
posted 05-20-2000 01:29 PM
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Sorry BDR, I over reacted like usual. Yes, everything is good even on the net. St. Cheez ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #49
Saint Cheez Guru Posts: 244 |
posted 05-20-2000 01:51 PM
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Concerning the question of "public performance" and having a 3rd party collect your royalties, the way I understood it, if your music is played on a radio or played on an internet music site, this was considered a "public performance", thus a 3rd party like BMP or ASCAP would collect your money for you. I am not saying that this is how it will work over here at LS, but I just wanted to clarify exactly what "public performance" means and when must an artist join this 3rd party group?
------------------ IP: Logged |
| #50
Grimmbaby Guru Posts: 325 |
posted 05-21-2000 11:44 AM
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Thanks Sean! It is now reading time IP: Logged |
| #51
Real Father Time Guru Posts: 178 |
posted 05-22-2000 12:22 PM
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Simple question = Can I still have a song on this site without being involved in this publishing thing. Please answer, somebody ? ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #52
jeez Guru Posts: 239 |
posted 05-22-2000 01:07 PM
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It's great to actually see this legendary contract at last. Having read all the posts in this thread has helped me to see the attendant problems, but am I correct in feeling that this is a pretty good draft? I suck with legal documents, but it all looked reasonable to me, bar a few sections of mystical nature. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #53
DoctorOakroot Guru Posts: 562 |
posted 05-22-2000 01:17 PM
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Father Time, Yes. LS has a non-exclusive agreement similar to mp3.com. You just don't get paid for downloads. The only way to get paid for downloads will be to sign one of the two publishing contract options. At least that's my understanding. Dr O ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #54
DoctorOakroot Guru Posts: 562 |
posted 05-22-2000 01:20 PM
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jeez, Overall, it's a very pro-artist contract. I have very few concerns about it and, for the most part, even in the worst case my concerns wouldn't stop me from signing. Toughest problem, IMO, is deciding between 50/50 and 75/25. Dr O ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #55
Corum Newbie Posts: 40 |
posted 05-22-2000 02:27 PM
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quote: The document to which you refer is called the New Artist Overview. http://www.listensmart.com/artists/Overview.pdf I read this document, and I could not find anything to support your claim that LS is (or wants to become) merely a "catelogue site." I even did full text searches for the words "catalogue" and "catalog" (the U.S. English version) to no avail. I did, however, find many statements to the contrary. I will quote them here. From "FORWARD by Sean Fenlon," page 3: quote: From "ARTIST FAQ," page 21: quote: ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #56
Davey Boy Crocky Guru Posts: 253 |
posted 05-22-2000 02:31 PM
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Father Time - Yes you can participate at LS without signing a publishing contract. You will only get paid for downloads on songs you have signed a publishing agreement, though. --- Well, signing the contract is definately not going to happen with the Shakedown Wizards. I have discussed this with the band, and we see our primary opportunities for publishing revenue to be our efforts outside of Listensmart. We will be forming our own Publishing Company or Companies. As a band, we do appreciate Listensmart's efforts and we have every intention of continuing to support this site. Now, my solo Davey Boy Crocky stuff is another story. This is my own personal decision. I don't plan on doing much with this material other than put it on OMD's. However, it is instrumental blues and rock, and someone may have an application for it, and if Listensmart can close the deal, WOO HOO. Some I am seriously considering it, and will be looking closely at the discussions over the next couple of weeks. I will probably be looking at Option A (75/25). I am not expecting to recieve significant revenues from Banner Ads, so no big deal. If these songs are going to make any real money, it will be from a movie/TV deal or something like that. So I kind of see it as a lottery ticket, if I win big I will get the most $, if I don't win big the $ won't be worth worrying about anyway. ------------------ Davey Boy Crocky's Solo Project [This message has been edited by Davey Boy Crocky (edited 05-22-2000).] IP: Logged |
| #57
edexter Newbie Posts: 15 |
posted 05-23-2000 12:47 AM
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One of the things that scared me when I was uploading was the comment about sending stuff to other sites without giving me the choice if they were sent out to other sites or not. I have gone to some trouble to promote myself to get airplay. The question as to if I sould give 25% of that away came to my mind. On the other hand 25% of nothing is nothing. It does take forever to deal with ascap I have been waiting three months for them to send me some forms to register my songs is it quicker this way? maybe the artists should be issued shares. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #58
edexter Newbie Posts: 15 |
posted 05-23-2000 01:17 AM
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I think the contract and all the posts are realy loseing me. I will have to go back to this when I have alot more time. ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #59
Andrew Hickey Guru Posts: 412 |
posted 05-24-2000 04:45 AM
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boink ------------------ IP: Logged |
| #60
Sean Fenlon Administrator Posts: 206 |
posted 05-25-2000 04:26 PM
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Part one of the ListenSmart Music Publishing Q & A can be found here. ------------------ IP: Logged |
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